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Wednesday, November 2, 2011

lack of tagim of Rabeinu Tam


In the Yud of the word "Hashamayim" it does not have the Tag of Rabeinu Tam (actually most of the yudim do not have tagim on them). The fellow that gave me this mezuza to have it check is Ashkenazic background but not so observant and definitely does not have mehudar Mezuzas and tefillin (we call this "mivtzaim mezuzas"). He does not keep all ashkenaz customs (does not daven Nusach ashkenaz). So my question is as follows- does the din of "Kotzei derebeinu tam Meakev for an Ashkenazi" apply even to those who are not so frum or do they need to follow ashkenaz customs for us to apply the din. Obviously my question is if one can be lenient and machshir a mezuza when every or most of the yuds (of a basic sephardi mezuza) is missing kotzim derebeinu tam). The poskim do machshir all types of Ktav as the Mishnas Hasofer explains in his intro to Smin 5 (however is it also speaking about a ktav velish which is missing kotzim drebeinu tam?) I appreciate your input.

16 comments:

  1. I think the machshir of all ktavim is a reference to the style of ktav, not applying to specific customs like this. I would assume that since he's really ashkenaz you need to fix it now that you have the chance.

    Nafka mina being bediavad say he's already put on tefillin today with parshiyot like this, would he have to put on again today or not, or for example with keriat hatorah.

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  2. I think you should fix the kotzim RT because all ashknazim follow the psak of rema - that they are me'akev.
    Ari is right to distinguish a specific hallachic point, in difference to the style of the csav.
    In regard to bdieved what has happened to this person till now, was he mekayem mitzvas tefilin or mezuza - we will leave that to hashem yisboroch special virtue of midas hachesed to decide!
    But if a person came to me asking should he put on tefilin again today, if the first one was without kotz RT - definitly I would tell him to put on another pair.

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  3. another important point - all sincere sfardi sofrim today add kotz RT.

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  4. just fix it with a rapidograph, its a non issue

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  5. I can relate though because I've had lots of small mezuzot like this with almost no rt kotzim...to fix them all is a big hassle (especially v small mezuzot) - but is it right to tell the owner to replace in such a case, when it could be fixed?

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  6. thanks,
    until now I have either carefully fixed every single yud or told them not to use the mezuza like the case that Ari mentioned.I will continue in this fashion.

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  7. btw, the chasam sofer is machshir a plain sharp edge corner for kotz drebeinu tam even without a blita. The Shavet halevy in volume 1 explains that the chasam sofer is referring to a blitta which does not look like another entity. Is one able to rely on the simple explanation of Chasam sofer that the kotz is just a sharp edged corner? At least in cases similar to a cheap mezuza (not for someone that wants mehudar, as understood).

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  8. I was about to ask the same thing. Although the yud in shamayim isn't really sharp like the first yud in כימי for example. My rav that taught me for hagaha taught that bediavad if all the yudim are really sharp with no kotz we can rely on this and don't have to fix them all. Although r Shtern seems to be machmir if there's no kotz mamash.

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  9. The chasam sofer is talking about a sharp edge, without a blita down. It was very difficult for Vaad Mishmeres Stam to accept, but that is what the chasam sofer is matir.

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  10. Ari and Dovid I didnt understand what you're talking about - in regard to the small mezuzos?
    did you decide to fix them or not?

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  11. I do and will fix them, my question is on the 7 cm small mezuzas, even to use a rapidograph to fix a tiny kotz darabeinu tam which anyways has a sharp edge without a blita (the case of Chasam Sofer) , could possibly pasul the mezuza.Especially when many of the yuds are only sharp edged which requires much work. Can we rely on this opinion for this case. Obviously a non mehudar mezuza only.

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  12. btw did anyone see my question posted on the ink of dio lanetzach, thank you

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  13. yes you may rely on the chasam sofer.

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  14. Dovid i went to see your question posted there and answered.
    usualy people dont look at the old posts, especialy to see if there any new comments. its better just to put anything in a comment in what ever is going on today, even if it isnt related to the main subject.

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  15. For me it depend on the case. If its just one mezuza I'll usually fix. If I have a few mezuzot from the same person all of which are missing a lot of kotzim Id probably explain to the owner they wil take a lot of effort (and therefore cost more) to fix and give them the option of replacing.

    My question was whether its right to suggest they be replaced just because it would take a lot of effort to fix them, when they can be fixed?

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  16. Ari I think its fair to explain the different options to a client, especialy as you say the mezuzos aren't the best quality in kashrus

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