What do you think on the letter tav of beisecha, can it be fixed through a tinok?

I know it is difficult to judge nifsakim by pictures, but I can notice a nifsak as I look at it from around 3 feet without difficulty. (Although I must note, that it will greatly differ based on the lighting).


    If it would not be nikar lehedya you may correct it but will not be mehudar.It is interesting to review the maharshag siman 3 that a chaf and vav which are very close is kosher although tinok would read mem-however if we need mem and there is slight nifsak we may correct if tinok reads correctly (this is a link to hebrew copy and paste to your browser or google)

  2. I think that a tinok should be asked and follow his reading even l'hakel. I follow the SA Harav 32:30 on this issue.

  3. lehakel - i meant that when he reads it tav, you must/can fix it.

  4. Beis Hastam thanks for the reference to Shut Maharshag - I am going to look at it - it sounds interesting

  5. Looks like R' Moshe beat me to commenting on this.

    It is true that the Halacha is if a letter is nifsak into two letters and is nikar lehedya then it cannot be corrected even with a tinok.

    I haven't seen Maharshag yet but R' Moshe, from looking at SA HaRav it seems to be saying if a letter is nifsak into two distinct letters a tinok doesn't help? Maybe I misunderstood your answer?

    However, the definition of "nikar lehedya" is not clear. Mishnat Hasofer (9:3 ד"ה חלוקה לשתי אותיות) brings two opinions:
    1) GRaZ and MB - that the hefsek is nikar immediately upon seeing the letter, without the need to focus on it intently.
    2) Mikdash Me'at - nikar lehedya is when the hefsek is as big as the distance between letters of the same word, in this same ktav.

    My Rav in STa"M, himself a talmid of R' Shtern, told me that once in a shiur R' Shtern drew a diagram for those present and mentioned that it's possible to be machshir to fix a letter split into two letters if a tinok reads it correctly and if the hefsek is noticeably smaller than the merchak between letters of the same ktav (ie mikdash me'at), because this is evidence that the letter is still recognised as being one whole letter.

    I believe our tav fits into this case since in this ktav that space between letters is much bigger than the hefsek, I'm confident a tinok would recognise it as a tav.

  6. Ari, you understood the SA Harav correctly, but that is when the 2 letters are distinct. I am not sure in this case that the tav is less distinct, than the riesh & nun. I also think a tinok will read it a tav.

    Meanwhile a friend of mine, (a magiya) walked in, and I asked him what does he say about it - He said without hesitation: "its nifsak l'hedya!
    Its a reish & nun."
    I am going to ask a tinok later, to see!

  7. Dovid
    thanks for posting this!
    it will be interesting - bezras hashem!

  8. Please note: images / photos on computer, while great for tzuras haosiyos shaalos do not always present nifsakim (and negiyos) as they appear in real life, and therefore you should ask shailos tinuk form the original only.

  9. Thanks for all the input, I will note that the Psika ragila that I have received on Shailos very similar to these (i.e. tuv which semi looks like 2 different letters however bechlolus still more resembles a Tuv)is Moiel Shailos Tinok. The Tinok will almost always call this a Tuv. However my Rav would quote the biur Halacha (?) saying "Yagid Raisha ol Saifa" does anyone know this svara well?
    BTW I mentioned that the lighting plays a high role on the letter, in the picture you see this is very close to a led light. However in a normal lit room it would much harder to notice the nifsaf. I assume the obligation is only in a normal lit room. Correct?


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