Both the Shulchan Aruch Harav and the Mishnah Brurah use similar terminology when describing the importance of the shin being "pointy" on the bottom and all three branches of the letter shin meeting at a point or "chad" at the bottom of the letter. There is a strong foundation in Halacha for this and for the bottom of the shin to be flat like a moshav (base) is considered questionable (Pri Megadim) and definitely not Kosher Lechatchillah. It is worse if the moshav is very wide, but it is still questionable if it is lechatchillah if there is a thick noticeable base rather than a chad. Even for Sephardim, who lechatchillah make an angular base, it is still important that the base is indeed on a (significant) angle. If the base is flat, even if all three branches of the shin come out of the base connected , as in the top picture, it is problematic. It is worse in the bottom picture below where the right head/ branch comes out of the right part of the base and the m
There are kosher nunim from vatikin sofrim whose regel doesn't achieve the moshav straightly rightwards, whereas there are posul nunim with a broken regel.
I think its kosher, I would not call this a nun shburah
ReplyDeleteEli why isn't it a shaylas tinok - it is wide a bit (the total width of the letter right to left is atleast 2k), and the tzura of its akev may cause a problem - for the tinok. This might be what Yossef's tinok couldn't recognize it.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with you that there shouldn't be a problem of shbura.
I was refering to the shebura issue. Now that I look at the width of the gug it may injdeed be a ST although I would want to see how the other nunim and chofim compare on the same mezuzah
ReplyDeleteWith the width of the gag and the bent tzavar combined, even if each on its own wouldn't be enough to pasel the nun - obviously together these factors were enough of a shinui for the tinok to not know what it is. Isn't the tinok machria?
ReplyDeleteie we have a letter that isn't obviously kosher, a tinok hasn't been able to identify it, therefore it should be pasul (assuming he's not tipesh). No?
Thank you yossef for posting the whole mezuza,
ReplyDeleteNow it is clear that this nun is not like all the nunim, but a shaylas tinok. If the tinok can't recognize it, it is pasul.
But be sure the tinok was shown several beitim and nunim, before you ask him on this specific nun.
BTW Hashgacha Pratis - see the gimel of dgancha, it is mamash the gimel sfardi/bagdadi I wrote about.
the mezuza can be enlarged by clicking on it to see the details
ReplyDeletei really don't think the sfardi mumchim would have a problem with this nun
ReplyDeletePerhaps as R' Eli says sefardi poskim would be fine with the nun.
ReplyDeleteMy question/point was even if we wouldn't lechatchila ask a tinok, doesn't the fact that a tinok already was asked and couldn't identify it mean that it's pasul because it does have some changes from the proper tzura?
If its not geder shalos tinuk to begin with, what the tinuk says is irrelevant
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ReplyDeleteI agree with Eli it would be a pitty to possul this mezuza, this shevira does not seem posul shelo kesidran. I think that the tinok is tipish to this Sefardi Nun, therefore he cannot identify it (not that he called it a beis, because it does not really look like one)therefore (I believe) you should re show it again by first getting the tinok used to the beis and nuns in the mezuza as r' moshe mentioned.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, is it ok to put little holes in the corner of the mezuza as in the picture with the needles? I think better not (tape or clips will work fine). Although I saw a sofer who posted for display posul mezuzas and he held it with needles on the corners like in this picture. I was wondering on this issue? thanks