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Tuesday, March 6, 2012

Menumar

There is a problem by a Sefer Torah if it is "menumar" (I can't find right now where it says this in Hilchos Sefer Torah so if someone could post where exactly I would appreciate it.) 

Does this din also apply by a Mezuzah? By a Sefer Torah the problem is since it is read b'tzibbur, but by a Mezuzah no one will see it.

The shailo came up like this. A Bachur learned how to be a Sofer and even has a csav kabbalah already. His father wants him to write for him mezuzos however this bachur doesn't want to write any Shemos so he will get someone else to write the shemos (c'sidran obviously.) But with someone else's csav you could run into the problem of menumar. The shailo is if it's even noge'ah by a mezuzah at all.

13 comments:

  1. look in keset hasofer, 10.18 under Be'er Hakeset 48.

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  2. I don't think it would be a problem, particularly if it is written with th esame thickness kulmus and same ink. menumar is rarely an issue and if it is it is from scratching

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  4. Eli -

    I agree the shailo is more a theoretical one. L'maseh he is having his Rebbe in STaM do it who has a similar csav. The shailo is more of if there is a din at all of menumar by a mezuzah or only by Sefer Torah.

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  5. I don't think the question here is if it's menumar or not, but I do think it lessens the level of hiddur if 2 Soferim write it (I learned that by a Sefer Torah, it lessens the hiddur if it is 2 ktavim, even if both are of the same script)
    It would also be a shlep to give each Mezuzah to his Rebbe for each sheim... perhaps he should wait a bit and learn how to write the shemot?

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  6. I should have emphasized the actual shailo here is not the important part (or not have mentioned it at all.) As I see it is distracting a little bit here. It was a lead up to the point that I'm really interested in is if there is a din of "menumar" by Mezuzos like there is by Sefer Torah.

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  7. see Igros Moshe, O"Ch chelek 4, siman 9, in a teshuva to the Lubavitsher Rebbe. At the end of the teshuvah he mentions that if Tfillin uMezuzos would be written in more than one style csav, it would be Posul because of Menumar.

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  8. I am familliar with that teshuvah, although I have not seen it for a while, nor do I have access to it right now, but I seem to recall the teshuvah is talking about different types of ksav ie arizal and beis yosef mixed, not different sofrim writing the same type of ksav.

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  9. Thanks Michoel for pointing this out!
    The very end of the teshuva where this is mentioned can be seen here:
    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=920&st=&pgnum=17

    Seems to be in line with what Eli pointed out that he is speaking about that it should be written with one csav (not beis yosef or ari zal mixed together.) However you do see from here that the din of menumar is also shayach by Tefillin and Mezuzos. Which in that case could be the same thing in regards to 2 different sofrim where it would come out a different csav.

    Mamash a matzia for this shailo, shkoiach!!

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  10. The same is the case if the shel rosh is Arizal, and the shel yad Bet Yosef. Although it is nice to be consistent, there should not be a problem of menumar, as they are both independent Mitzvot.

    The same idea holds if a person has various doors in his homes. In one door he has Bet Yosef, in the other Sefaradi, and the rest all Arizal. I can't tell you how many clients I get like this. Although its proper to be consistent, I would never require them to change. Meikar hadin they are fine.

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  11. Agreed. However lechitchillah obviously they should purchase their correct minhag and keep it consistent

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  12. @alberto In the case you mentioned, if the person has Beit yosef, veilish and arizal mezuzot im sure that some will be written according to the layout of parshiot of the Rambam while others may be written with the layout of the Taz. If so, there's another problem - tartei desatrei, which i think is big problem in this case, perhaps bigger than menumar.

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  13. Good point YK. If one has Sfardi Mezuzot one can almost rest assured that the parashiyot are setumot in accordance to the Rambam.

    On the other hand, Minhag Ashkenaz has gravitated to write Mezuzot with parashiyot setumot in accordance to the Taz. With respect to the above, however, most Chasidim, Chabad & pupils of Rav Sheinbergh follow the Rambam's shittah.

    Nevertheless, even in a case were there is no internal consistency across the various mezuzot in a person's home (Rambam vs Taz) we don't invalidate them. Rather, they are all upheld as valid.

    More so, it's interesting to note that, the inconsistency doesn't end by Mezuzot. For example, the same person may have Mezuzot according to the Taz, wear Ketav Ari tefillin with parashiyot like the Rambam, and read from a Bet Yosef Sefer Torah. Go and figure; it is really a matter without end.

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