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Wednesday, August 22, 2012

Tough mezuzah shailah




I was at someone's home yesterday putting up mezuzos and I came across a difficult shailah. There is a large opening between a kitchen and another room which has a mashkof on top and one doorpost on one side, which has a mezuzah. The other side does not really have a doorpost because the kitchen counter breaks it up (see pic), but there is part of a doorpost going up about one meter on the other side.

Ideally the mezuzah should go on the side as one enters which would be on the right (yemin haknisah) since the front door is behind the photographer, but there is no full doorpost omn that side. chashivus is not really a factor here because both rooms are essentially the same and part of the kitchen.

So practically the mezuzah was put up on the other side. Is this correct? Should it be changed, and if so, how or even taken off all together?

Feedback appreciated.

18 comments:

  1. can you come into this room from the sliding rear doors

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  3. If I understand the pictures you are showing correctly and the information you mentioned that there is no extra chashivos in the other room than the correct location for placing the mezuzah is on the counter top. The reason is as follows, since the counter top is higher than 10 tefachim, it is regarded as if the wall goes to the ceiling.In Halacha this concept is called 'Gud Asik Mechitzasa' which means 'the wall is considered as if it goes up' (see Rambam Hilchos Sukkah 4:4). See also the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch 11:12. For a similar case although not the same at all see
    my blog http://mezuzahblog.blogspot.com/2012/04/counter-top.html

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    1. If you say Gud Asik, then the mezuzah still has to go in the shlish Haelyon which is non existent. It just doesn't make sense.

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    4. R" Moshe wrote the following:
      "I think the counter cannot be considered a mezuza post at all, it is not made for the sake of being a mezuzas hashaar. And the right side of the passage after the table has a problem that the table is kavua and mevatel the right post from being a mezuza [since it is hanging higher then 3 tefachim from the floor],
      Therefore there is only one option to leave the mezuza stay [IE the enterance is from the inner room outward, and following according Rosh Tur and acharonim [YD 287] that a pesach with 1 mezuza [on the right] is chayov, or to totaly poiter this pesach".

      Modeh on the Emes.

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  4. if thats the case the mezuzah should go near the power point on the right side? seems a little crazy, its like knee height

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  5. It looks like a classical case where we have to consult the fifth volume of the שלחן ערוך aka "שכל ישר", and leave the Mezuzah where it is now.

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  7. See here:
    http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=9708&st=&pgnum=233&hilite=
    (and the page before it.)

    I want to speak to R' Shammai about this and will bli neder post what he says.

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    1. please let us know what rav shammai says

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    2. He said to put it on the side of counter on the wall. No makom to have it on the left and if it's already there then should be moved.

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    3. I disagree. The shulchan is kavua, and is mevatel the right post from being a mezuzas hashaar.

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  8. So what should it be done, where should it be placed?

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    1. it is either patur, or be left where it is (and will be considered a right for the yotze from the inner room, and only according to the Rosh [v'siyato] that one mezuzas shaar on the right side is also chayov (the Rambam and Mechaber are poiter in this situation. See Tur & SA siman 287)

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