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Wednesday, October 10, 2012

After the Retzuah Tumult

I am still searching for a good quality mehudar retzua at any cost.It seems like nobody makes retzuot like the ones made just a few years ago.
I tried:
Zonnenfeld
Shimborski
Weissman
Wider
Chazut
Rav Landau
I keep on getting returns for cracking and peeling. I have retzuos for over 20 years and they are in great condition however new retzuos in case you had luck seem to hold up only a 3-6  years.After all if somebody purchases a $2000 set  and wants the best what can i give him.

5 comments:

  1. I have been most satisfied with weissman

    ReplyDelete
  2. I've never heard of Chazut. Are these machine/avodas yad? Whose hechsher?

    I only use avodas yad and the last 4-5 years use all black unless requested otherwise (rare).
    Of the well known makers (Rav Landau, Zonnenfeld, Shimborsky, Weissman and Vieder plus Mendrazitsky, I think Weissman is the only one making machine retzuos anymore.)

    Weissman and Vieder are under Rav Moshe Shaul Klein. (Just stating a fact)

    I've successfully used Weissman for years and have had close to zero returns/complaints. He did have an issue with peeling around 3 years ago and the Edah made it public and "let him go" (he was making separate productions under the Edah and Rav Klein) and there are some who have recently had issues with peeling again. (I will share more about this at the end.) I personally have had no problems or peeling.

    I used Veider a few times some years ago but find his retzuos to be very thick and difficult for Nusach Sfard.

    I had used Zonnefeld as my higher end retzuah for years but the price became ridiculous over the last number of years. Other than a few pairs in which the black took on a reddish hue, I had no problems with them.

    I switched from Zonnenfeld to Shimborsky for my higher end/ Edah option and have been pleased. I have found that they are not easy to get.

    I used to occasionally use Mendrazitsky under Rav Klein and they were also fine. He now is only under the Edah and is selling off the last rolls left that he made under Rav Klein.I just took a roll of his Edah retzuos, now being produced by his son and will see how they compare to Shimborsky.

    Note that Weismann and Vieder (Rav Klein) cost less and are about the same price. Shimborsky and Mendrazitsky (Edah) are a little more and should cost the same.

    Here in Yerushalayim we really don't see/ hear about Rav Landau's retzuos. The exception would likely be Chabad dealers.

    Weissman called me last week. I learned the following that is important to share:

    1) Most of the peeling retzuos are actually from a not well known maker, or at least not well known among more reliable sources. (Even though I am told he is a large producer.) I will provide the name to those who e-mail me. (sofer@stam.net)
    2) The reliability of this maker seems questionable. He had been under Rav Moshe Shaul Klein for a number of years but apparently Rav Klein dropped him. He then got a hechsher from another 2 people (one then the other) and now apparently has a hechsher from someone ("A chassidish avreich in Bnai Brak"- I will not mention the chassidus) who also has the name Klein. It seems that Weissman was blamed for the latest peeling problem as people confused many of these other "Klein" retzuos with his. I don't know if this maker or his distributor have purposely mislead people with the Klein name.
    3) There has been discussion here and in general among sofrim/dealers for some time and particularly in light of the recent peeling issue, about the quality of some of the hechsherim on batim and retzuos.While this matter requires further looking into, Weissman tells me that when he goes to Thailand to produce avodas yad retzuos, a mashgiach chosen by Rav Klein goes with him and his sole purpose for being there is to oversee the production.
    4) Rav Klein doesn't require that the hides be salted lishma nor does he require those stages that are not part of the tanning to be done by hand. The Edah on the other hand requires that the hides either be salted lishma or that fresh or frozen (non salted) hides he used. They also require that each stage of the tanning be done by hand. Rav Klein's opinion on salting would apply to batim and klaf under his hechsher. He likely holds that the rinsing of the hides before starting the tanning process removes all the salt and is mevatel any haschalas haibud.
    5) While the Edah requires the salting to be lishma, Weissman tells me that Rav Bransdorfer zt"l paskened that it was not necessary. However, the Edah wants to maintain a very high standard so requires it anyways.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I've never heard of Chazut. Are these machine/avodas yad? Whose hechsher?

    I only use avodas yad and the last 4-5 years use all black unless requested otherwise (rare).
    Of the well known makers (Rav Landau, Zonnenfeld, Shimborsky, Weissman and Vieder plus Mendrazitsky, I think Weissman is the only one making machine retzuos anymore.)

    Weissman and Vieder are under Rav Moshe Shaul Klein. (Just stating a fact)

    I've successfully used Weissman for years and have had close to zero returns/complaints. He did have an issue with peeling around 3 years ago and the Edah made it public and "let him go" (he was making separate productions under the Edah and Rav Klein) and there are some who have recently had issues with peeling again. (I will share more about this at the end.) I personally have had no problems or peeling.

    I used Veider a few times some years ago but find his retzuos to be very thick and difficult for Nusach Sfard.

    I had used Zonnefeld as my higher end retzuah for years but the price became ridiculous over the last number of years. Other than a few pairs in which the black took on a reddish hue, I had no problems with them.

    I switched from Zonnenfeld to Shimborsky for my higher end/ Edah option and have been pleased. I have found that they are not easy to get.

    I used to occasionally use Mendrazitsky under Rav Klein and they were also fine. He now is only under the Edah and is selling off the last rolls left that he made under Rav Klein.I just took a roll of his Edah retzuos, now being produced by his son and will see how they compare to Shimborsky.

    Note that Weismann and Vieder (Rav Klein) cost less and are about the same price. Shimborsky and Mendrazitsky (Edah) are a little more and should cost the same.

    Here in Yerushalayim we really don't see/ hear about Rav Landau's retzuos. The exception would likely be Chabad dealers.

    Weissman called me last week. I learned the following that is important to share:

    1) Most of the peeling retzuos are actually from a not well known maker, or at least not well known among more reliable sources. (Even though I am told he is a large producer.) I will provide the name to those who e-mail me. (sofer@stam.net)
    2) The reliability of this maker seems questionable. He had been under Rav Moshe Shaul Klein for a number of years but apparently Rav Klein dropped him. He then got a hechsher from another 2 people (one then the other) and now apparently has a hechsher from someone ("A chassidish avreich in Bnai Brak"- I will not mention the chassidus) who also has the name Klein. It seems that Weissman was blamed for the latest peeling problem as people confused many of these other "Klein" retzuos with his. I don't know if this maker or his distributor have purposely mislead people with the Klein name.
    3) There has been discussion here and in general among sofrim/dealers for some time and particularly in light of the recent peeling issue, about the quality of some of the hechsherim on batim and retzuos.While this matter requires further looking into, Weissman tells me that when he goes to Thailand to produce avodas yad retzuos, a mashgiach chosen by Rav Klein goes with him and his sole purpose for being there is to oversee the production.
    4) Rav Klein doesn't require that the hides be salted lishma nor does he require those stages that are not part of the tanning to be done by hand. The Edah on the other hand requires that the hides either be salted lishma or that fresh or frozen (non salted) hides he used. They also require that each stage of the tanning be done by hand. Rav Klein's opinion on salting would apply to batim and klaf under his hechsher. He likely holds that the rinsing of the hides before starting the tanning process removes all the salt and is mevatel any haschalas haibud.
    5) While the Edah requires the salting to be lishma, Weissman tells me that Rav Bransdorfer zt"l paskened that it was not necessary. However, the Edah wants to maintain a very high standard so requires it anyways.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Try Altein in Crown Heights they are a more expensive but there is no doubt to their kashrus and quality.

    ReplyDelete
  5. chazut has hecsher rav yakov meir stern and of the cheaper ones it is very popular in usa.
    there is no reason to hide the retzua that had peeling problems it is named hod vehadar with hecsher rav yakov yitzchok klien and actually the classification ("A chassidish avreich in Bnai Brak")is correct as i met him the first time we had the problem.At that time he said they will stop selling and investigate.

    ReplyDelete

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