Tagim like Shin

I spoke to a Sofer today who told me over the following shailo.
When he writes Shatnez Gatz he always writes the tagim first then the ois. This he was makabel from one of his Rebbes in STaM (who I happen to know to be an unbelievable Sofer.)

He said he wrote the tagim first however they became connected at the bottom forming almost like a Shin. He then wrote the ois further and realized afterwards what had happened. His question is since when he wrote the ois (and connected it to the tagim) the tagim were "pasul" (looked more like a very small shin more than tagim.) Is there a problem here that the ois was nictav b'pisul? Would there be a problem now of chok tochos in regards to the ois to just erase the tagim? Seemingly it doesn't change the tzurah at all of the ois and just looks like 2 oisios that are touching. Therefore chok tochos I don't think would be a problem. However the nictav b'pisul part is really the question. Perhaps he should go back now and erase everything (as opposed to just erasing the tagim.)


  1. unless they were very large tagin there is no chashash of chok tochus, best way to fix is by adding ink to the rosh making it a little higher and then as a resultthe three tagin will come out of 3 separate places of the rosh

    1. in this comment i refer to scraping off the tagin completely and rewriting them, which is no chsahs

      scraping/ separating two tagin touching heavily is a chashash

  2. What about nictav b'pisul? Or since they are not so big that is also not a problem?

    See here: http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=38350&st=&pgnum=39
    Towards the bottom of the right hand column -- starting "v'im nifradu..." Could that idea perhaps be applied over here as well that if the tagim were written first and ended up looking like a shin?

  3. I don't see why there should be any shayla in regard to the ois itself.
    In regard to the tagim there is a question {I think in Mikdash M'eat} is there a problem of chok tochos in making the tagim?
    If we side that there is no chok tochos, then definitly there is no csiva b'pisul either!!

  4. My concern was (al pi the imrei shefer) and from the fact that the tagim which are a chelek of the ois are essentially pasul if they look like a shin, then got connected to the ois therefore perhaps like "nictav b'pisul".

    I wrote down from R' Shammai that he said there is no such thing as "nictav b'pisul" by tagim however I regret now that I didn't elaborate more in my notes since I probably asked something specific then.


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