Shin with line almost touching Nun

A sofer came to the Beis Horah by R' Shammai this week with an example of a shailo he had seen recently.

L'maseh it's not touching (the line coming out from the shin that is next to the Nun)

R' Shammai was machshir and told the sofer it's similar to one when writes a Chof and Vav and they came out very close together however not touching. This I've seen by him a number of times (the shailo of a chof and vav) and as long as it's not touching was also machshir.


  1. I should think the chof and vov is more chomur because the final product can sometimes look like a broken mem,and can be read as a mem by a tinok, yet here its hard to imagine a tinok is going to read the nun as a broken tzadik

  2. it's good that this sofer didn't bring this shayla to me (:

  3. Especially since he described the real shailo as being "worse" than this (!)...This he brought as an example to see what R' Shammai would say. The one who had the shailo I don't know who he went to or who paskened on it.

  4. It seems that this should be worse than caf and vav that are standing close, since at least in that case each letter itself is written correctly. Here the extra line on the shin is already creating a problem of shinuy tzura [although effecting the nun!].

  5. the shin by itself, even with the line, is still clearly a shin

  6. I would have thought according to R Eli's view.

    If the left rosh of the shin was a yud but written with an extended and inclined regel I'd assume it would be more chamur than the kaf vav. But here since its a shin - isn't that מעיד עליו ריעו which makes it more meikel?

    What if that rosh of the shin was disconnected from the shin shelo nikar lehedya - like the distance it is from the nun. Would the remainder of the shin be מעיד עליו that the rosh is part of the shin and by extension not a tzadi to be machshir through ST?


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