A place for English speaking sofrim (scribes), magihim (examiners), rabbis and vendors of Stam (Torah, Tefillin and Mezuzah scrolls) from around the world to communicate, share ideas, ask questions and offer support and advice.
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פורום בינלאומי לנושא סת"ם
Sunday, March 10, 2013
Kuzu in the wrong place
bs"d
whats the din if the first kuzu was writen on the back of elokenu and continued from there?
The same as the din if there is no Kuzu at all - Kosher lechatchila. But since the Rema says there is a minhag to write Kuzu... kneged Hashem Elokeynu Hashem. It could be that this mezuzah doesn't fulfill that minhag. Or it could be that the Rema didn't mean that it has to be exactly kneged, just in the general area.
In any case, if it is an otherwise mehudar mezuzah and this is the only thing that is lacking in hiddur, and the owner is interested in having mezuzahs btachlis hahidur, you many be able to easily erase the kuzu and rewrite it properly. This is often very simple since the back of the klaf most often has a klipa on it that comes off with a very gentle scraping. But if the klaf doesn't have that klipa and there is any chance of damaging the Mezuzah, I would leave it alone.
BTW, are you a grandson of Rov Zirkind of Crown Heights? I have always noticed that R. Zirkind writes Kuzu above "Hashem Elokeiynu Hashem" so that it is kneged the empty space above the words. I have always assumed that he did this for practical reasons so that when your roll the mezuzah the letters don't rub together. This is especially a concern with the acrylic based ink that R. Zirkind uses because it will tend to stick to itself if the letters are in contact, so that when you open the mezuzah it could pull ink off the page.
Correct, that is rav Zirkinds reasoning. He also once told me it does not have to be mamash mechuvanos
The general consensus amongst rabbanim I have asked is that Kuzu has to be written in the approximate space keneged the shaimos acc to the rema. One is not obligated to use a light table or to check against the light that each letter is mamash mechvan
So long as it is in that general area there is no detraction of hiddur or shmira.
Though they're not Sheimos She'einam Nimchakim, I'd be afraid to erase Kuzu etc., which are Sheimos on an certain level, simply to make it more "Mehudar" (if it even accomplishes that).
Also, for similar reasons, I never pronounce Kuzu etc. I say, "Chaf Vav Zayin Vav".
To r' shaffier. Yes I am rabbi zirkind's grandson. It is true that that is the reason for writing it like that. But I recently heard in his name that the full ovi kulmus of kuzu should be written k'neged the ovi kulmus of the sheimos
its fine
ReplyDeleteThe same as the din if there is no Kuzu at all - Kosher lechatchila. But since the Rema says there is a minhag to write Kuzu... kneged Hashem Elokeynu Hashem. It could be that this mezuzah doesn't fulfill that minhag. Or it could be that the Rema didn't mean that it has to be exactly kneged, just in the general area.
ReplyDeleteIn any case, if it is an otherwise mehudar mezuzah and this is the only thing that is lacking in hiddur, and the owner is interested in having mezuzahs btachlis hahidur, you many be able to easily erase the kuzu and rewrite it properly. This is often very simple since the back of the klaf most often has a klipa on it that comes off with a very gentle scraping. But if the klaf doesn't have that klipa and there is any chance of damaging the Mezuzah, I would leave it alone.
BTW, are you a grandson of Rov Zirkind of Crown Heights? I have always noticed that R. Zirkind writes Kuzu above "Hashem Elokeiynu Hashem" so that it is kneged the empty space above the words. I have always assumed that he did this for practical reasons so that when your roll the mezuzah the letters don't rub together. This is especially a concern with the acrylic based ink that R. Zirkind uses because it will tend to stick to itself if the letters are in contact, so that when you open the mezuzah it could pull ink off the page.
DeleteCorrect, that is rav Zirkinds reasoning. He also once told me it does not have to be mamash mechuvanos
DeleteThe general consensus amongst rabbanim I have asked is that Kuzu has to be written in the approximate space keneged the shaimos acc to the rema. One is not obligated to use a light table or to check against the light that each letter is mamash mechvan
So long as it is in that general area there is no detraction of hiddur or shmira.
גם בשד"י על והיה או סמוך
ReplyDeleteThough they're not Sheimos She'einam Nimchakim, I'd be afraid to erase Kuzu etc., which are Sheimos on an certain level, simply to make it more "Mehudar" (if it even accomplishes that).
ReplyDeleteAlso, for similar reasons, I never pronounce Kuzu etc. I say, "Chaf Vav Zayin Vav".
To r' shaffier. Yes I am rabbi zirkind's grandson. It is true that that is the reason for writing it like that. But I recently heard in his name that the full ovi kulmus of kuzu should be written k'neged the ovi kulmus of the sheimos
ReplyDelete