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Monday, May 27, 2013

3 times "ASHER" in Mezuzah

In connection with what





12 comments:

  1. Nice.

    Two things though:
    1) It looks like you shortened the reishs.
    2) You didn't leave the proper spacing between each אשר.

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    1. you don't need to leave space between 3 asher because its supposed to represent 9 letters not 3 X 3 letter words

      best way to be meshayer is to take a digital caliper and measure a few of the asher's from that ksav, average them out and multiply by 3, that's the space you need (lechatchilla)

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  2. I agree with R Eli's way of measuring lechatchila - writing it out once won't really be consistent and each parsha must be measured against its own ktav.

    However MB סי׳ ל״ב ס״ק קס״ג does say lechatchila to leave a yud between each אשר as well.

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    1. Ari, from my understanding the Sephardim don't leave the yud between the three ashers when calculating shiur parsha

      someone correct me if I'm wrong, I heard that once from a Sephardi magiha

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    2. I just spent some time looking into it, it seems its a machlokes between the bach (who says three times asher with space between words) and the rambam and the mordechai, (who say its enpugh three timnes asher without any space between the words).

      So it makes sense that Sephardim, who follow the rambam would not leave a space.

      It works out much better practically as well since it is leikuvah for Sephardim , at least according to rav ovadiah, and sometimes thos two yudim mage a BIG difference

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    3. The Shu"t Ish Matzliach(1 Y"D 44) and Rav Meir Mazuz say that we should leave the spaces:
      ובאמת תיבת אשר מכילה ט' יודין, ונמצא ג"פ אשר עם ב' אותיות קטנות הם כשיור עשרים ותשעה יודין. ויצטרך להתחיל תיבת "והיה" מתחת לסוף מלת "וכתבתם" בשורה שלפניה

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    4. and this is followed as halacha lemaaseh by all sefardi sofrim?

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    5. The reason I ask is because I'm very makpid to sell sefardi mezuzos with a proper Sefardi Rambam spacing( Shema until end and 9 large letters at the beginning of VI"S). While this is easy in tefillin, its much more of a challenge in mezuzos. I am forever checking them with a digital caliper bvefore selling them, and trying to be makpid like Rav ovadya Yosef.

      Unfortunately most sefardi mezuzos out there are not written with proper rambam paragraph spacing, and at best will only have two times asher at the start of VI"S, even though shema goes until the end of the line. While this is perfectly kosher for Ashkenazim, this is HIGHLY problematic for sefardim. (I try not to impose Ashkenazic minhagim on Sepfardim the same way I don't sell Chabad paragraph spacing to litvaks and Taz Paragraph spacing to Chabad.)

      Therefore it is important to me if I have to calculate the two extra yudim (in the past I have not).

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    6. Eli,

      No, not for all Sephardim. We are simply talking hiddur at this point and not halakha l'maase for the terms of Kashrut. For Kashrut purposes without any degredation of hiddur the ו of והיה has to be either in the space between עינך and וכתבתם or under the ו of וכתבתם. That is a machloket poskim, with all agreeing that "mehudar" starts with the latter.
      I spoke with Rav Ovadia Yosef's sofer, Rav Yechezkel Shlit"a, and he puts the ו of והיה under the כ of וכתבתם and he gave me a photocopy of a mezzuzah that he wrote for Rav Ovadia.
      When talking about Ish Matzliach and Rav Mazuz, we are talking strictly in the realm of hiddur, and those two Rabbanim say that one should calculate the additional Yudin when do so. Rav Yechezkel agreed with said position, but said that he only does it when someone is makpid to ask for davka shalosh paamim אשר.
      I will do some more checking, but I am fairly certain that we are not going to find a unified Sephardi opinion. There are just too many communities that make up "Sephardim".

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    7. I consider R' Ovadia Yosef's opinion as mainstream for Sephardic issues, particularly as my sefardi clientel here in Aus hold of him strongly.

      If he(his sofer)puts the vov under the chaf of uchsavtem he is leaving EXACTLY nine large letters (without spaces).

      Thats good enough for me to sell as mehudar. And it's consistent with what I was told by the sefardi magiha I have always relied upon and it's exactly what I have been doing until now.

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  3. It just shows to go that one can satisfy some of the opinions all of the time but not all of the opinions all of the time. Horaiyoh that b'di'eved yesh al mi lismokh...

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  4. I don't see why you have to have a "full size" ג"פ אשר, as long as the size of the letters are כשר לכתחילה there should be no problem. There is no sense in squeezing the writing itself but when it gets to the blank space- then you leave a full "שיעור חזון-איש" space of ג"פ אשר. Correct me if I am wrong.

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