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Wednesday, September 17, 2014

Shu"A Ha'Rav - hekef gvil toich ha'os

I am wondering what is the opinion on Shu"A Ha'Rav? Does he agree with the Mishna Berurah that the insides of letters (at least 3-walled letters) are exempt from the requirement of hekef gvil (at least after the fact)? Or does he hold that the inside is no different than the outside?

From my learning I have concluded that the inside is no less than the outside.

I'm wondering if anyone understands differently?

5 comments:

  1. דעתו העיקרית להלכה דאין חילוק כלל בדין מוקף גויל בין בפנים או בחוץ של האות. ורק בסוף סעיף יט מביא דעה אחת דס"ל לחלק דבחוץ צ"ל היקף גויל גם אחר הכתיבה, ולא מבפנים

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    2. to be speaking le'achar ha'ksivah...
      furthermore, I infer from the same Kuntreis Acharon that even Rav Chisda still required the potential for the letter to become mukaf gvil, but not the actualization of that.
      Accordingly, Ashiyan spoke lifnei ha'ksivah (as the Keses suggests in Chakira 4 in order to explain the assertion in Yerushalmi that Ashian and "le'maalah passul" of R' Yochanan are the same).
      Accordingly, the pasul of Ashiyan could have meant that it requires actual hekef gvil, not only potential, but that it can certainly be fixed.
      Accordingly, its Muttar to fix all hekef gvil issues always.
      (I am negating the point that Shut Rame makes, as well as Keses, that Rav Chisda requires fixing. It seems we can learn that Rav Chisda only required the potential to fix).

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  2. מנין לנו שלפי הירושלמי מועיל גרירה לעשותו מוקף גויל, אם האות חסר היקף גויל
    הרי הרשב"א וסייעתו סוברים דבמקרה שנפסל משום שאינו מוקף גויל לא מהני גרירה - שהרי זה חק תוכות

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  3. Well, how did the Rashb"a know that? Secondly, the A"R clearly takes the approach of the Rosh, Trumah etc. That hekef gvil is muttar to scrape. Now, its possible tgat their makor for that is the Yerushalmi. I.e. they learned Yerushalmi "pasul lemaalah" to mean passul before tikkun. But tikkun is muttar.
    An advantage of learning this way is that theres no machlokes bavvli and Yerushalmi. Ashyan and R Yochanans "lemaalah passul" is bishaas haksivah and muttar to scrape. Rav chisda, and rav, and lemata kosher are leachar haksivah and dont require scraping. Just that they require potential for scraping. Bavli requires no potential at all.

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