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Sunday, June 19, 2016

botched correction

out of town sofer gave me this parsha to check while he was visiting. I found that he  wrote כי twice,  I  instructed him to 1.erase first yud and second kuf  2.widen the kaf  gradually. he corrected it and left town. As our minhag we recheck prshios that needed correction. I have a sofek as it looks currently, however since correction was done gradually we must also view it at every step of the way if it had a shinui tzura

13 comments:

  1. מ"ב סי' ל"ב ס"ק ס"ג.

    ולהבא, יותר טוב לענ"ד לגרור רק תיבת כי המיותרת ותו לא. כי באריכת הכ"ף כגון דא יש חשש שינוי צורה. ויותר טוב שישאר המקום פנוי כי אינו ט' אותיות קטנות ואפי' ג' אותיות אין בו

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  2. יש בו ג אותיות קטנות בפרט עם הרוחים של לפני ואחרי
    וראיתי פרשה מהסופר ר' אהרן פולק שמתח כ עוד יותר וכששאלתי אותו טען שין בזה חשש שינוי צורה

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  3. יש בו ג אותיות קטנות בפרט עם הרוחים של לפני ואחרי
    וראיתי פרשה מהסופר ר' אהרן פולק שמתח כ עוד יותר וכששאלתי אותו טען שין בזה חשש שינוי צורה

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  4. I wonder if by erasing the second Ki only and pulling back the hay as much as possible by adding to the back of the guy and regel (ugly but not a shiny tzurah), he could have possibly closed the gap enough so that it wouldn't definitely be 3 Yudin gap? Could have been worth a try?

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  5. Not withstanding the shaila, there isn't a chashash of shinui tzura due to it being stretched. I question if pulling the Hei back would have prevented a gap of 3 Yudin so the stretching may have been the best option.
    Can you ask the sofer when this happened as the severity of the shaila depends on when it happened.

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  6. If the sofer saw it and felt it was kosher (or asked a shailo) he probably would have cleaned it up. The fact that he gave it as is to go back in the tefillin (ie had no concern about the blob of ink)as is, may mean he may not have seen it or it happened somehow after he made the tikun? I agree, it's imperative to ask the sofer

    Generally, some Chassidishe sofrim (including many in Chabad) aren't choshesh about a gap of three Yudin (Since it is not mentioned in S"A Harav) and would be more concerned about a stretched letter (particularly not of the "L'HADERES" letters that are more acceptable to stretch.)

    For many others though, it would make far more sense to stretch the Chof (which as R' Yerachmiel says is not usually considered a shiny tzurah at that length) as opposed to the chshash of three Yudin, a potential psul.

    The best practical way of fixing (none are perfect) should depend on the background of the customer

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  7. If the sofer saw it and felt it was kosher (or asked a shailo) he probably would have cleaned it up. The fact that he gave it as is to go back in the tefillin (ie had no concern about the blob of ink)as is, may mean he may not have seen it or it happened somehow after he made the tikun? I agree, it's imperative to ask the sofer

    Generally, some Chassidishe sofrim (including many in Chabad) aren't choshesh about a gap of three Yudin (Since it is not mentioned in S"A Harav) and would be more concerned about a stretched letter (particularly not of the "L'HADERES" letters that are more acceptable to stretch.)

    For many others though, it would make far more sense to stretch the Chof (which as R' Yerachmiel says is not usually considered a shiny tzurah at that length) as opposed to the chshash of three Yudin, a potential psul.

    The best practical way of fixing (none are perfect) should depend on the background of the customer

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  8. RECAP with more details: out of town sofer brought his parsha to be checked, we found double ki, he made another stop fixed it and the blotch happened "before" he finished widening the chaf,(he was warned to use chalk but was in a rush)he was sure its kosher so he asked me to scrape it when it dries. a tinok read the current chaf properly. Shaila- ar we choshesh that had i shown it to tinok after blotch and before rest of stretch he would of read it wrong

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  9. It depends when the blotch happened.

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  10. If he was sure it's kosher throughout the tikun process and never did he "register" or notice a potential shiny tzurah in his mind while doing the repair, then you don't need to make a shailo of it retroactively. I've asked this question MANY times...

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  11. I believe the tz"tz addresses a similar - speculative case in hit Tshuvos on Even Ho'ezer.

    I'll check it out later bl"n.

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