A place for English speaking sofrim (scribes), magihim (examiners), rabbis and vendors of Stam (Torah, Tefillin and Mezuzah scrolls) from around the world to communicate, share ideas, ask questions and offer support and advice.
I think it still has tzuras mem. From memory: rabbi stern requires but allows to correct על ידי כתיבה since we need four sides inside.A small inside is ugly but kosher. I always wondered if scratching is allowed after correction ע"י כתיבה or would it be a form of panim chadashos
It's important to note that with respect to the MEM SETUMA the IKAR that determines whether the letter retains is shape is that it be squared on the outside alone. The shape of the inside is NOT a matter of concern as long as the letter is squared on the outside. The concept of it being squared on the inside is only LECHATECHILAH. As such, BEDIEVED, this letter maintains its shape.
If one is worried and insists that it should be corrected על ידי כתיבה then just square it a bit on the inside top right corner and the bottom inside base. However, there is no reason to invalidate the letter if it's fixed by removing the excess ink within the HALLAL, even before correction, as it cannot be considered CHAK TOKHOT.
I don't think Rav Moshe's concern was that the inside isn't square but that perhaps the tzuras Mem was affected/lost. I agree that it wasn't and is kosher and that the inside can be cleaned up.
Regarding tzuras haos ,that is deformed on inside only: the sefer mishmeres stam brings a pischei tshuva that is machmir, unfortunately I didn't see this in the pische tshuva. Regarding missing limb from inside: Rabbi Silbiger in ksiva tama disagrees with mishmeres stam and holds its kosher. Rabbi Stern brings this discussion 3 times . page 65,79 and page 91 that if a wall or roof is missing on inside אין לפסול בדיעבד HERE IS AN INTERESTING STORY: When i was doing shimush for haga I checked 25 mezuzas and I didn't realize that the 2 feet of the tav meet inside and therefore there is no roof. The magia that rechecked after me claimed it was bdieved - we went to Rav Stern where I argued that in ם he writes its kosher so why are you saying now its bdieved- in the next publication he added a piece to his sefer when discussing letter tav where he writes אין לפסול בדיעבד see the sefer page 91 where this discussion is inserted at later time In any case he told me personally that he holds its bdieved until corrected . I asked the forum members if it is fixed by adding ink may we then scratch or maybe the members feel it becomes mehudar by scratching. Please post your thoughts
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ReplyDeleteI think it still has tzuras mem.
ReplyDeleteFrom memory: rabbi stern requires but allows to correct על ידי כתיבה since we need four sides inside.A small inside is ugly but kosher.
I always wondered if scratching is allowed after correction ע"י כתיבה or would it be a form of panim chadashos
Definitely allowed so long as you don't do ponim chadoshos mamash
DeleteDefinitely allowed so long as you don't do ponim chadoshos mamash
DeleteIt's important to note that with respect to the MEM SETUMA the IKAR that determines whether the letter retains is shape is that it be squared on the outside alone. The shape of the inside is NOT a matter of concern as long as the letter is squared on the outside. The concept of it being squared on the inside is only LECHATECHILAH. As such, BEDIEVED, this letter maintains its shape.
ReplyDeleteIf one is worried and insists that it should be corrected על ידי כתיבה then just square it a bit on the inside top right corner and the bottom inside base. However, there is no reason to invalidate the letter if it's fixed by removing the excess ink within the HALLAL, even before correction, as it cannot be considered CHAK TOKHOT.
I don't think Rav Moshe's concern was that the inside isn't square but that perhaps the tzuras Mem was affected/lost. I agree that it wasn't and is kosher and that the inside can be cleaned up.
ReplyDeleteRegarding tzuras haos ,that is deformed on inside only:
ReplyDeletethe sefer mishmeres stam brings a pischei tshuva that is machmir, unfortunately I didn't see this in the pische tshuva.
Regarding missing limb from inside:
Rabbi Silbiger in ksiva tama disagrees with mishmeres stam and holds its kosher.
Rabbi Stern brings this discussion 3 times . page 65,79 and page 91 that if a wall or roof is missing on inside אין לפסול בדיעבד
HERE IS AN INTERESTING STORY: When i was doing shimush for haga I checked 25 mezuzas and I didn't realize that the 2 feet of the tav meet inside and therefore there is no roof. The magia that rechecked after me claimed it was bdieved - we went to Rav Stern where I argued that in ם he writes its kosher so why are you saying now its bdieved- in the next publication he added a piece to his sefer when discussing letter tav where he writes אין לפסול בדיעבד see the sefer page 91 where this discussion is inserted at later time
In any case he told me personally that he holds its bdieved until corrected .
I asked the forum members if it is fixed by adding ink may we then scratch or maybe the members feel it becomes mehudar by scratching. Please post your thoughts