A place for English speaking sofrim (scribes), magihim (examiners), rabbis and vendors of Stam (Torah, Tefillin and Mezuzah scrolls) from around the world to communicate, share ideas, ask questions and offer support and advice.
I just spoke with Rav Friedlander on asking a tinok this shailah. He feels that since children are used to the printed Nun Sofit, in which the leg protrudes from the right corner that a tinok will likely call even a very long Zayin as a Zayin and therefore it's best for a moreh horaah to pasken and not ask a tinok. However, in my humble opinion, if the moreh horaah is besafek and one tests a child on a number of Zayins and Nun pshutas (mixed in with other random letters) in this ksav and he proves to know his letters then it would be best to ask him and if need be, an adult can be asked by covering the surrounding letters.
It is greatly preferable to use a tinok proficient in osiyos stam. Most kids proficient in osiyos stam will know the difference between a zayin and nun pshutah is the length of the regel only, as they are identical on the top....
Both the Shulchan Aruch Harav and the Mishnah Brurah use similar terminology when describing the importance of the shin being "pointy" on the bottom and all three branches of the letter shin meeting at a point or "chad" at the bottom of the letter. There is a strong foundation in Halacha for this and for the bottom of the shin to be flat like a moshav (base) is considered questionable (Pri Megadim) and definitely not Kosher Lechatchillah. It is worse if the moshav is very wide, but it is still questionable if it is lechatchillah if there is a thick noticeable base rather than a chad. Even for Sephardim, who lechatchillah make an angular base, it is still important that the base is indeed on a (significant) angle. If the base is flat, even if all three branches of the shin come out of the base connected , as in the top picture, it is problematic. It is worse in the bottom picture below where the right head/ branch comes out of the right part of the base and the m
We all know that there is no ancient source that requires ink to be מן המותר בפיך . Possibly, as said here before, because in the olden days ink was always מן המותר בפיך and the question was never raised. It was probably self-evident. Nowadays, no decent Rav will approve an ink which is not מן המותר בפיך . Who was the first one to raise this question? Was it raised because of animal ingredients or because of non-kosher wine?
I just spoke with Rav Friedlander on asking a tinok this shailah. He feels that since children are used to the printed Nun Sofit, in which the leg protrudes from the right corner that a tinok will likely call even a very long Zayin as a Zayin and therefore it's best for a moreh horaah to pasken and not ask a tinok. However, in my humble opinion, if the moreh horaah is besafek and one tests a child on a number of Zayins and Nun pshutas (mixed in with other random letters) in this ksav and he proves to know his letters then it would be best to ask him and if need be, an adult can be asked by covering the surrounding letters.
ReplyDeleteIt is greatly preferable to use a tinok proficient in osiyos stam. Most kids proficient in osiyos stam will know the difference between a zayin and nun pshutah is the length of the regel only, as they are identical on the top....
DeleteWe agree.
ReplyDeleteMISHMERES STAM holds posul.
ReplyDeletei will post rabbi kleins tshuva that tinok doesnt help